Curse

Res Ipsi · May 21, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Right, so how does everyone you know make it a mighty wide paint brush?

Again, do I have to point you to the SR change thread, where COUNTLESS PvE players whined about it even though its still the best e-management ability in the game?

How about the Splinter Weapon nerf thread where countless PvE Rangers said they'd quit even though it still does more AoE damage than any other spell in the game and is unremovable?

How about any update thread with Paragon nerfs where apparently Paragons become completely useless and thus PvE paras threaten to delete their class, even though it's the most overpowered class in the game STILL?

I could honestly keep going and name like 6000 other examples.

So the MAJORITY you're speaking of are Forum posters? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the entire GW community, whose opinions aren't necessarily represented by the whiners.

Sab · May 21, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Res Ipsi

So the MAJORITY you're speaking of are Forum posters? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the entire GW community, whose opinions aren't necessarily represented by the whiners.

So go into any outpost, press P, and look at all those people who love overpowered skills.

DarkNecrid · May 21, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Res Ipsi

So the MAJORITY you're speaking of are Forum posters? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the entire GW community, whose opinions aren't necessarily represented by the whiners.

hello ursan.

zwei2stein · May 21, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

So go into any outpost, press P, and look at all those people who love overpowered skills.

People love "easy button".

upier · May 21, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

What are some the challenges of balancing skills and items in PvP gameplay against PvE?

Isaiah: There's definitely a huge conflict of interest. PvE players tend to want extremely overpowered things and feel epic while killing lots of things. They don't want things to change very much. Things need to remain static so that they can learn and plan strategies. Change is bad for them - it creates instability in their world. They often have builds and Heroes set up to work off of each other. A major change could completely destroy their game experience. PvP'ers want things to be very balanced. When things aren't balanced, they want it changed. In fact, changing things up in general can make things a little more exciting in PvP.

The issue is simple:
PvP seems to balanced on the wishes by the few good players (since there is NO freaking way that the people who do not play high-end PvP do NOT want overpowered skills to trash people in something like RA!) - whereas PvE seems to be balanced on the wishes by the bad players.
As a player grows and gets better - the PvP player reaps the benefits whereas the PvE player just gets more frustrated by the shitty design.

Fix this in GW2.

DreamWind · May 21, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Solid interview, even though it seems a bit old. The "we aren't splitting PvE and PvP" part makes it seem old, when clearly that is Anet's more recent intentions.

The part about PvE is true though for the majority. There is no scientific proof, but it is easy to see. Almost all nerfs are met with complaints, and almost all buffs are met with cheers by PvE players. It is simple to see this.

To me personally, I am starting to believe there may be divisions in Anet on the direction the game is going. What Izzy says here is not reflecting what is happening to Guild Wars in my opinion.

Riot Narita · May 21, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Isaiah: It comes from a couple different places. We watch the game a lot. I have an observer mode bot that watches the game 24/7

OMG Izzy is a botter!

zwei2stein · May 21, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The issue is simple:
PvP seems to balanced on the wishes by the few good players (since there is NO freaking way that the people who do not play high-end PvP do NOT want overpowered skills to trash people in something like RA!) - whereas PvE seems to be balanced on the wishes by the bad players.
As a player grows and gets better - the PvP player reaps the benefits whereas the PvE player just gets more frustrated by the shitty design.

Fix this in GW2.

Its kinda sad, but it is true ...

Whole of GW2 is based on deepest wishes of bad players, don't count on it to fix anything you find broken.

pumpkin pie · May 21, 2008, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Isaiah says: PvE players tend to want extremely overpowered things and feel epic while killing lots of things. They don't want things to change very much.

i say: from a pve players point of view That is not what I as a pve player want, Yes we do like the feeling of winning, we do want to feel epic. But do not think that a "static unchange" scenery in a game will hold our interest for too long.

For instant: arena net can make "bosses" spawn in different areas, it could even spawn in different maps. it does not have to be at the same location all the time. where it becomes a 'formula" - non - changeing scenario.

Another instant: New quests could be added to the game. you know things happens everyday, and "our pixel friend" in the game, say Koss' father might have other errends that needs to be done since they are always standing there. which bring another option, these npc could be at differnt places at different times, Besides there are alot of available characters in the game, such as the Homeless Cantha, beside giving them a mirror each, we could probably bring them along a quest and then send them to some farm or more suitable area. Or the Town crier, probably we get to kill them for falsely alarming the general public.

what I am saying is, the game must be Hard to a point that you don't feel there's no challenge, and the game must be non-static that you feel as if you are grinding, a game that "grow" with time.

a timeless game.

So, NO, I as a pve players wants things to change.
Just not they way it was apply

but some of the changes were good.

Longasc · May 21, 2008, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Isaiah: There's definitely a huge conflict of interest. PvE players tend to want extremely overpowered things and feel epic while killing lots of things. They don't want things to change very much. (...) PvP'ers want things to be very balanced. When things aren't balanced, they want it changed. In fact, changing things up in general can make things a little more exciting in PvP.

This is one of the points that tells me that GW2 will have extremely overpowered skills and super easy PvE. And that PvP will not be so much different from the arena-style combat we have nowadays. Except maybe their world battles, probably glorified ABs?

His bolded assumption is fundamentally wrong. I know that there are people who like IMBA stuff to rule, but not for long. But this is destroying the game even for those who like it in the beginning. Because it is just too easy. And it for sure does not characterize my idea of PvE. I want some challenge and effort, not extremely overpowered crap to vaporize mobs while watching TV and eating pretzel sticks with one hand.

I am not happy about this attitude, makes one fear for GW2.

Quote:

Isaiah: Moving forward, we realize how hard it is to keep both of these groups happy with a single set of rules. Separating the two aspects would probably be in our better interest in the future, but it's not something that we'd put into the current version of Guild Wars.

Interesting solution, unfortunately I must say Izzy does not show any love for PvE. You cannot let a person who has such a low opinion and imagination of fun and interesting PvE gameplay make skills for both PvE and PvP.

The only thing coming out of this would be more ursan "blessings".

They must have missed the whole Ursan, Consumables and general difficulty debates here on this and other forums.

Quote:

It's very important for us to be careful, because some people have specific builds to farm monsters. It's very easy to change a few numbers for the sake of PvP and blow it all away.

One thing I cannot understand: They really respect farming as a valid form of gameplay. I would see it as a sub-division of PvE gameplay, but how on earth can they give farming such a high value? If a farming build gets destroyed, people farm something else, what is the problem? They can of course take farming in account, but given the fact how lowly pve gameplay is evaluted as "overpowered skills killing lots of mobs in an epic way", I can only wonder. They should care more about general PvE than specific farm builds and areas, I cannot believe that.

Quote:

Isaiah: The big thing we always try to iterate is that we care about all the aspects of our game.

Hopefully.
But if constantly re-balancing and re-evaluating skills is the only way to keep people PvPing is questionable!

PvP players could use better automated tournaments, interesting new maps and game modes, there are many more important things to do than to nerf and buff builds on a regular basis. Balancing skills is just the BASE, the minimum effort to make a PvP game good, but it needs more than that, sorry.

Also, good PvE gameplay is not defined by overpowered skills versus hopeless mobs. ANet wanted to get away from power grind, and all their title additions to PvE favor grinding for minor skill improvements.

Longasc · May 21, 2008, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The issue is simple:
PvP seems to balanced on the wishes by the few good players (since there is NO freaking way that the people who do not play high-end PvP do NOT want overpowered skills to trash people in something like RA!) - whereas PvE seems to be balanced on the wishes by the bad players.
As a player grows and gets better - the PvP player reaps the benefits whereas the PvE player just gets more frustrated by the shitty design.

Fix this in GW2.

Excellent summary.

GW2= PvP gets a few minor improvements, PvE gets dumbed down even more + added grind and maybe unlimited levels to grind even more.

Wow?

FrAnt1c² · May 21, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Izzy uses an observer bot! Me wants

Turbobusa · May 21, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Izzy = skill balancer.

He balances skills, he does not give instarape skills to people because they think it's fun. He does not show love for PvE because that's not where skill balance is needed. If you have a bunch of OP skills, you'll encounter em 5% of the time, whereas in PvP you can be sure you'll face them 90% of the time because people will abuse them.

Longasc · May 21, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Izzy = skill balancer.
He does not show love for PvE because that's not where skill balance is needed.

You encounter overpowered and easy to use skills in everyday PvE, too. You know what people are looking for, it starts with U and ends with rsan.

But do you really agree that no skill balance is needed in PvE?
Sure, people are meant to win vs the mobs, everyone knows that! But you still have to keep skills in check, if the mobs die too easy and too quickly to overpowered skills, insta win buttons, the game becomes BORING. The evil UB makes every player almost equal, no class variety, no different methods - but some people like it. I just say they will not enjoy this for long before moving to another game. Reduced complexity does not make a game only more accessible, it can also make it dull.

Killed u man · May 21, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Izzy = skill balancer.

He balances skills,

I lol'ed...

CagedinSanity · May 21, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

... It's easy for us to change too quickly and not see the full effect. Something might seem overpowered because it's new, and our first reaction is to change it. Then we might realize later on that there are numerous ways to counter it, but players just needed time to get used to it. We have to constantly hold ourselves back and make sure we're making the right decisions.

Ursan, anyone?

Still, the whole interview seems shoved with generalizations, but I can't blame him.
Respect to izzy for putting up with our shit.

Res Ipsi · May 21, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

So go into any outpost, press P, and look at all those people who love overpowered skills.

I have, and except for outposts like ToA, DoA, and assorted dungeons, it's not nearly as common as a few posters here have made it out to be. In any event, my view is that many players slap these skills on their bars not because they want to feel "epic" while owning masses of red dots, but because they want to speed things up. Players completed missions long before these silly skills were introduced, so the skills themselves added nothing to the game but a faster way to do so.

Stuart444 · May 21, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Personally, I don't care if PvE gets overpowered skills, I play for the story, titles and that are just something I consider fun to do after completing the main story.

Most PvEers seem to want some sort of overpowered skills, I mean look at the amount of people who search for partys in PvE, most want Ursan and before that, I bet it was the same for other skills (ursan was just the first example i thought of)

As long as PVP doesn't change too much (as in the way it's done, skill seperation may also be a good thing for PvP and PvE) and PvE gets more missions (for a longer story >_> ) and more quests then I'm happy ^^

I did like this interview though but it does seem a little old so why it was not published earlier....I don't know.

Abedeus · May 21, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Lol Res, just listen to you. ,,Except for dungeons, elite areas, high-end things that are supposed to be challenging, ursan is almost nowhere''. Yeah, and Buddhists exist everywhere except in mainly catholic countries (like Poland and it's neighbors and protestants), so it would mean they are everywhere. And there is no salt water except for the oceans and seas.

Izzy is a hard hypocrite. He says they nerf skills that appear (HAHAhahHAhAhA OHOOHOH OMFG LMAO) to be overpowered, but ursan is still ruining pve. He says pve is important, but it's lame and too easy.

Lhim · May 21, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

I really hope they have different ideas now.